Transcribed by Jane Kingswood
Listen to this episode here.
SARA-MAE: Welcome to Heyer Today, the podcast in which I explore the life and work of Georgette Heyer over 25 episodes.
Apart from wanting to talk to other Heyerites about her work, and torturing unsuspecting friends by trying to convert them, I’ve always wondered why on earth Heyer’s work hasn’t been plundered by the film world long since.
As I may have mentioned more than once, OK, I’ve been banging on about it for years now… if we can have 87000 remakes of Pride and Prejudice (and believe me, I’m here for every one of those), why haven’t they seen the cinematic promise of Heyer’s work? She’s ticking a lot of the same boxes and wrote far more than Austen’s six much beloved works.
For years, many fans have thought that it was Heyer herself putting a spanner in the works, which rumour was compounded as her biographers reported her distaste for the one film version of her book: The Reluctant Widow. But as Jennifer Kloester will attest in our upcoming interview, this wasn’t the case at all. Heyer, who often struggled for cash, was longing for someone to buy the rights – it would have made her more popular in America, and it would have eased the financial burden she often felt as her family’s main breadwinner.
It’s not as if no one showed interest. In 1939, Heyer had had discussions with Alexander Korda about filming her novel on Charles II, A Royal Escape, but this, as well as proposed films of An Infamous Army and False Colours, (to star her friend, actress Anna Neagle) dissolved into nothing.
Though initially excited by the prospect of The Reluctant Widow being adapted, the changes that screenwriters Gordon Wellesley and Basil Boothroyd made to her work disgusted her. Not only did they alter much loved supporting characters Becky and Nicky, they added a smuggler, plus a new character, Madame Chevreuax, played by Kathleen Byron.
To pep up the plot, they also shoehorned in an exciting duel scene, a second marriage (which makes no sense plot wise) as well as London scenes featuring Guy Rolfe. As for leading lady Jean Kent, The Daily Express described the role she plays as: “a cross between the Wicked Lady, Forever Amber and the barmaid at the local.” Heyer was disgusted, and wanted her name removed.
Dr Lucy Bea, film historian and brilliant quilt maker, says, however, that these reports (and Heyer’s response) were unfair to the movie. Kent in particular, she says, plays the part of Elinor, “much as written”, and Guy Rolfe, who ended up playing English villains for much of his career, got the rare chance to take the role of the hero, and quote “played it with conviction”.
Another interesting addition to the cast was Julian Dallas as Francis Cheviot, who later wound up under contract to Warner Brothers starring in The Adventures of Jim Bowie. Though educated at Repton and Balliol College, Oxford, he was rebranded by the film company, who created a fictional biography to match his “deep, Southern drawl”, and had him growing up in eastern Pennsylvania.
With great props and scenery created by Catherine Dillon at Denham Studios, who clearly relished the opportunity to replicate the mock-gothic setting depicted in the novel, there is much to be enjoyed visually, especially for Heyer fans who like this sort of attention to detail. The best of these little touches being a campaign sheet of the Peninsular War printed in 1815, a copy of the Morning Post borrowed from the British Museum, and accurate Horse Guards uniforms.
For me, however, the film lacks the sparkle of the novel, and the addition of plot points and characters feel unnecessary. Still, it’s not nearly as bad as Heyer’s son Richard thought it, who urged his mother avoid it like the plague.
Whether or not this bad experience had a bearing on further works not being made into film, as we’ve moved into the 21st century, I’ve been hopeful that Heyer’s work will be rediscovered by some talented film maker. Amazon? Netflix? Come on, there are so many riches to plunder!
And, it seems that at last, the wait may be over. One film producer, Andy Paterson, has stepped into the breach. Having produced such luminous hits as Girl With A Pearl Earring (adapted for the screen by his wife, the talented Olivia Hetreed) and The Railwayman (coincidentally starring my favourite Mr Darcy, Colin Firth), Andy is going to open up to me about what led him to consider Heyer’s work for the screen.
ANDY: Funny you should mention that…
SARA-MAE: Bill Nighy? Is he going to be in it? When visiting London Beth and I went to the flats known as The Albany, home to many famous politicians and writers and actors. Apparently. We finagled our way in, by claiming to be interested in buying one of the flats. I spent the entire time imagining Heyer going up the tiny staircases. And then, we spotted Bill Nighy. Is he in the movie? That would be perfect!
ANDY PATERSON: Not yet. We’ll come to that.
SARA-MAE: So, let me start at the top. Have you and your wife Olivia always been fans? Are you both fans? How did you get to be working on this project?
ANDY PATERSON: I’ll be very honest; Georgette was not somebody that I read when I was young. Olivia had read when she was a younger girl. Strangely, I made a film called Hilary and Jackie about Jacqueline du Pré, with Emily Watson, years ago. And one of the strange processes you go through as a filmmaker, if you are telling a true story like that you have to make sure that it is legally bulletproof. And we had a wonderful lawyer from New York, an academic guy who just started as through that process. He said to me; way, way back, ‘Georgette Heyer, utterly unexploited. Don’t understand why. Wonderful stories,’ and I filed that away at that point. Then a few years later, an American Producer called Cotty Chubb sent us this idea. I read this book, and I thought Sophy is just the most amazing character.
SARA-MAE: Yep, it’s The Grand Sophy. One of Heyer’s most popular books. I can’t wait to hear more about Andy’s thoughts on it.
ANDY PATERSON: So that was the way in for me. We were trying to find stories about strong and powerful women. And Sophy just came off the page, this girl is incredible! And so, we loved it and talked about doing it.
SARA-MAE: But how did Andy unravel all the labyrinthian writing issues? What are the difficulties exactly when it comes to getting the rights to a book?
ANDY PATERSON: Well, Cotty Chubb, did the original work on that, but I think our feeling is we wouldn’t have gone into it if we weren’t going to do justice to it. So certainly, dealing with Peter Buckman, who is the agent who looks after the rights at this stage… we had a very open conversation about why we wanted to do it. We didn’t want to do exactly as it is in the book, because film is a different thing. But we did want to do it with the full support of the estate. So, we wanted to pitch how we would do it and know they would be happy with that, in the way we were going to, if you like, enhance it for the screen.
SARA-MAE: Speaking of Peter Buckman, why don’t we let him introduce himself?
PETER BUCKMAN: I started my professional career, after university, as a publisher, with Penguin. And I did about three years of that, in London and New York with the New American Library. And then because it was many years ago, I got summoned for the draft for the US Army, even though I was British and had a green card. So, I came home, and then became a full-time writer for 35 years. Writing books and scripts and films and radio plays… almost everything except greetings cards. And for the last 13 years I’ve been a literary agent.
I set up the Ampersand Agency, with my wife’s support. She’s been an agent selling books to foreign publishers, and she was taught her trade by a man called Peter Janson Smith. I talked to him. We had an old-fashioned publisher’s lunch, involving several bottles of wine, and other alcoholic stimulants. And as a result of that I set up the Ampersand Agency and he came on as consultant and brought the Georgette Heyer estate to us, which he had looked after for several years. I had never read Georgette Heyer until then, and then as an agent to the estate, I started reading her Regency romances and was completely captivated. We represent all her books. The entire oeuvre, including some that had been suppressed and found their way to Amazon in old editions.
SARA-MAE: One of the things I’ve been looking into is the ideas that rights themselves might be tied up in some way or owned by someone who wasn’t prepared to licence them to filmmakers. Even after reading the biographies, it’s rather hard for my tiny brain to understand, and unravel, who owns what. Maybe Peter can clear this up?
PETER BUCKMAN: What happened was, at some point, she sold the copyrights for a great deal of money, to the Booker-McConnell Organisation, the people who started the Booker Prize. They bought copyrights to several bestselling authors including Ian Fleming, who was also represented by Peter Janson Smith. But he was then employed by Booker to look after these authors. Then, Georgette Heyer’s son, Richard Rougier, decided to buy the copyrights back. And they were divided between a company Georgette herself set up called – Heron Enterprises – and some, including the mysteries were owned by Sir Richard Rougier. He died some years ago. He made me a director of Heron Enterprises, and his widow invited me to represent the copyrights and titles that were in his name. So, Ampersand now represents all her books and I’m glad to say they are all in print!
SARA-MAE: Andy had to talk to Peter about producing The Grand Sophy. How did that go?
ANDY PATERSON: It has been a very open conversation and we’ve had that on most of the things we do, again going back to Girl with a Pearl Earring, which seems to be a template for this in a way. Tracy Chevalier had lots of offers for the rights to that book, but I think we persuaded her that we understood it and how we wanted to tell the story, [which was] very much Olivia’s take on it. We haven’t had a problem with Peter or the estate, I think possibly because we had that very open conversation about what we love about the character and story and where we think we might have to take it somewhere that hopefully audiences will go oh that really is The Grand Sophy! It’s not exactly as it was on the page, but it hopefully will capture what Georgette had created.
SARA-MAE: Right, and are you working with the BBC at all? I understood they had some of the rights as well?
ANDY PATERSON: Yes. We are developing it with BBC Films. Which is the film division of the BBC, not the drama department, but the film department. Which is a great bunch of people who have loved it from the start.
SARA-MAE: I understood they had the rolling rights? I don’t really know why they haven’t made something before now. Do you have any idea why?
ANDY PATERSON: Well, there’s a difference between the drama department and the film department. And I’m not sure how much I can say about that. The rights you refer to are with the drama department who tried to do something… perhaps different. Certainly, it did not include Sophy so we are on a very separate track.
SARA-MAE: As fans, we’ve been dying for some kind of representation of some of our favourites, particularly the Regency romances. Having seen how successful things like Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility [are]… why isn’t there room for someone like Heyer there? Why do you think it is? You obviously are in a great position to postulate on why…
PETER BUCKMAN: Ever since I took on the agency to represent her 13, 14 years ago, I’ve been trying to get television companies and film companies to produce her work. And there are several people who claim to be great fans… it’s the controllers of drama who have not gone ahead, because they give various excuses…
SARA-MAE: As a scriptwriter himself, Peter knows a lot about the ins-and-outs of getting literary property into production, yet even he, with his years of experience, is clearly frustrated. Reading between the lines, it seems as if several Heyer projects popped on and off the radar with the BBC, never coming to fruition.
PETER BUCKMAN: We had options with the BBC at one stage, and sample scripts and a whole what is called ‘the bible’, which would be the stories that would take it beyond one episode or a whole series, these had been prepared and were knocked on the head by the then Controller of the Drama, who said, ‘oh we do too much period, and it’s all too expensive’. Then, of course, they go and commission another version of Poldark. Which is fine. Great.
ANDY PATERSON: I can only tell you what we’ve done, which is to come to them with a very specific proposal for one film. And we’ve had no difficulties.
SARA-MAE: Why is it that Andy’s had such a different experience. Has he more personal relationships within the BBC. Is it simply that it’s easier to close the deal with a risk averse drama department, when you’re a film producer with a proven track record of literary adaptations under your belt? Yet, Peter’s worked on projects like Inspector Morse and others, so he’s hardly a neophyte in this area. Whatever the reason, Andy seems loath to comment on it. You’ll have to get Peter Buckman to tell you the answer to all those questions, I’m not going to speak out of school.
PETER BUCKMAN: The answer is – it’s a question of getting the right combination of talent and timing. And I’m hopeful that a film of The Grand Sophy will actually move into production, but it’s been eight years since we started negotiations as its gone through several versions of the script, the later script is by Olivia Hetreed, who wrote Girl with a Pearl Earring, and they’ve got a director, they’ve got an actor lined up to play Sophy, and various others. Whether it will happen, who knows!
More exciting is… I’m not allowed to give names, but there is an Oscar-winning woman writer who is a huge Heyer fan and she is keen to initiate a television series of Regency romances, [for] which we have a major broadcaster, [who] has taken an option on this.
SARA-MAE: Wait. Oscar-winner? What? Peter can’t say. Bummer.
PETER BUCKMAN: …And that seems to me potentially a goer, because the writer is well known and respected, the broadcaster is keen to use her work. We’ve got a production company who I’ve worked with on other projects, and greatly respect, who are taking this forward. So, who knows what will happen, but you have to be an optimist in the business, because otherwise you’d give up! So, I’m very aware of the fans’ desire to see her work up there on screen, little or big screen, and I’ve been working very hard to make it happen.
SARA-MAE: Oh man, I feel sorry for Peter, bearing the brunt of all this frustration, knowing how much fans like me are longing for Heyer adaptations. I wish there was something I could do to…oh right. I’m making a whole entire podcast about her work and her life…so I’ve done my part. I guess it’s up to you listeners out there to rate and subscribe…it’s the only way to prove how much we want this to happen. He he…
PETER BUCKMAN: Sometimes when I despair of publishing, because they’re so cautious, I then talk to film producers and all the nonsense they have to go through, all the hoops they have to pass, with the money and everything else, raising money from a whole variety of sources, all of whom want a say in how things go. I am then grateful that I mainly work in publishing.
In the end, it comes down to like everything else, the subjective decision of one or more persons who are heads of drama, or whatever. And we’ve got at the moment a Head of Drama who is keen to proceed, but I remain optimistic.
SARA-MAE: Working on something like this, which is so beloved…
ANDY PATERSON: We have to please the obsessives!
SARA-MAE: Is he referring to moi? Hmmm. That’s fair.
SARA-MAE: There are so many people who are massive fans all over the world. Is that a bit daunting?
ANDY PATERSON: Well it certainly helped to have Peter Buckman in the loop, representing the estate, because I think the first port of call is to make sure they know what you’re doing. So, that you know that they’re going to support the vision for the film.
I think that with any book, with any film in fact, you have to ask yourself, why it needs to be told as a film. The book is a wonderful book, you don’t want to do it unless you feel that the people who love it are going to love what you’re doing.
SARA-MAE: I mentioned to Andy that I recently re-watched Girl with a Pearl Earring and it struck me that the power of the film lay in the silences. The way Scarlett Johansson had to communicate so much with her eyes. Because as a servant she was powerless, in many ways because of her status. To me Sophy has a lot more agency and power, and most importantly the ability to speak her mind in spite of societal mores, which restrained women at the time.
SARA-MAE: She’s a bit of a proto feminist, isn’t she? She’s like an Austen heroine, but without those constraints.
ANDY PATERSON: You talk about constraints; those are in many ways things that really help a film. Olivia wrote the screenplay for Girl with a Pearl Earring, one of the reasons that movie works, one of the genius things about the screenplay is that she really understands what it is to be a woman in a world when there are so many limits. And the tension, and the stakes in GWAPE come from the fact that you really understand the danger that this girl is in. She has such a strong sense of what she believes in, but she knows she doesn’t have the right in this world to say that. I think that’s one reason that really connects.
And Sophy has that same feeling. And Sophy, the character, is so compelling, that you look at the character and go, ‘OK what’s the story? What does she go through that’s going to make it a great film? You stay true to the character that Georgette created. Then you look at it and go, ‘OK, there are all kinds of things here that Georgette hints at, that people talk about that isn’t necessarily in the story’.
SARA-MAE: I’m always interested in how people turn books into scripts, what do you focus on, what do you take out. I can’t wait to hear what Andy and Olivia thought about when looking at The Grand Sophy.
ANDY PATERSON: So, the first thing we’ve done, a big thing to do, is go, ‘She talks in the book about Sophy being in Brussels during the Battle of Waterloo’, and we went; ‘Ooh. That’s a huge thing, what happened?’ We’ve moved the story to just before Waterloo, not least because, in our dreams, we will continue.
SARA-MAE: In my dreams too Andy, in my dreams too.
ANDY PATERSON: The first thing Olivia said about Georgette is that she is underrated in many ways, but one of them is she is such a great historian. She researches, she writes her stories based on a lot of historical fact. And you look at that and go, OK, so, what would she have thought if we had said to her, ‘You’ve got Sophy at Waterloo, there are lots of mysteries about Waterloo, that maybe we will discuss in future films. But let’s not squander this character, let’s do it just before Waterloo, it changes nothing about the story itself, but it allows us to explore the history alongside the character and the story itself.
The loveliest thing that happened on Girl with a Pearl Earring, was that Olivia and Tracy Chevalier got on so well, that when Tracy read the script she said ‘you’ve done things I wish I’d thought of’. And, to have that kind of relationship, where you can take what someone’s created and that gave us this the idea to do this, this and this, that’s completely in keeping with the original. But allows you to take a character that’s been invented by somebody and go further. I love that we can take what Georgette hints at in the book and go, let’s play with that.
You do sit there thinking, if Georgette was in the room would she approve. And given the research, the nature of these stories, the characters she’s created… that’s the hardest test. Would she go, ‘Oh I see, that’s within character, you can explore that’, or would she go, ‘what are you doing?’
So, I hope where we’ve explored further, she would approve.
PETER BUCKMAN: I was actually told by her son, that she really didn’t like the dramatisations or adaptations that were made of her work in the forties and fifties, and she was against it. Of course, television wasn’t the force then that it is now.
SARA-MAE: There’s a false idea she herself was anti film as a medium for her work. According to Jennifer, it was the particular adaptation of The Reluctant Widow in the fifties, they’d sexed it up in her mind, and she didn’t approve, but she still was very keen because she was always concerned about money.
PETER BUCKMAN: Money!
SARA-MAE: And the taxman taking it all.
PETER BUCKMAN: What we have done to try and safeguard that is that we include a phrase… something like ‘the producer will be faithful to the spirit of the book’. So, while we have to acknowledge the film company who buys the rights will have the final say, we hope by putting in, and making clear, this earnest desire, we hope to safeguard the image of Heyer, which is actually much more mischievous and full of wit and wickedness, than perhaps people who haven’t read her imagine.
So, I think there’s enormous scope and the script I’ve seen of The Grand Sophy shows this, you can take the basis of the story and the characters and re-imagine them for the screen. And still be faithful to the spirit of the books without sexing them up, or dumbing them down, which is equally possible.
SARA-MAE: So, you don’t think that that might be something that might put film makers off? Or create issues for them? This idea they have to remain true… do you think that that might be one of the factors, that’s contributed to…?
PETER BUCKMAN: I don’t think so, because, the number of Jane Austen adaptations, and the strength, if you like, of the Janeites who pounce on any deviation, or misinterpretation of the text, has I think got people used to the idea that you can be faithful to the spirit of the much-loved novel and still make it attractive to a contemporary audience, many of whom probably haven’t read it. I think it’s the cost, because all costume dramas are more expensive because the costumes and the location. And the BBC has these periodic fits of saying we do far too much period. And then they immediately commission something else. So, there’s a lack of consistency and courage among broadcasters. But I think, if we managed to get a first series going, and it’s as well done as I hope it will be, then I can see lots more following. And there are plenty of Regency novels to choose from.
SARA-MAE: In this particular climate as well. I think we all need a bit of beautiful, frivolous period drama.
PETER BUCKMAN: Exactly. I totally approve, but as I have to work with these guys, I’m more diplomatic when I’m in their presence!
SARA-MAE: [Laughs] Good, yes.
SARA-MAE: I tell Andy you about the rumours that had been going around after the Sony hack. Remember that? Gosh, that feels like a zillion years ago, and it was only 2015. Anyway, one of the emails mentioned this project, describing the reimagined Sophy as a lady spy. I wanted to know if they’re planning any other major departures from Heyer’s plot.
ANDY PATERSON: She’s not going to be Jane Bond as somebody once said in one of these things. But, you know, she is a girl who has been raised by her father, dragged around the trouble spots of the world. She is somebody who’s incredibly capable, has clearly done lots of things. And we’re certainly going to explore that a little bit. But the arc of the story is a girl who finds herself as the fish out of water in London, trying to, in a sort of Emma kind of way, solve all the problems of that household. And she’s a girl who, you know, thinks she can basically solve anything, except the one thing she doesn’t expect, which is that she’s going to fall in love and that scares her more than Waterloo.
SARA-MAE: One thing that strikes me when I read the book is that Sophy casually refers to experiences she’s had in the war that are actually quite dark. Though the tone throughout the book is light, with the humour always at the forefront. Will Andy and Olivia be keeping the same tone, or will there be devastating flashbacks of a traumatised Sophy, cutting through the narrative? I have to admit, I’m not sure how I’d feel about this. I can’t help still being bitter about the Netflix version of Anne of Green Gables, in which they kept undercutting the flow of the story with scenes from Anne’s troubled past. It really didn’t work for me.
SARA-MAE: You’re going to keep the comedy of her work and the wit going through?
ANDY PATERSON: Absolutely. It’s the most wonderfully entertaining script. The feeling of the script is that you never quite catch up with Sophy. But she just has this kind of sense of wow, there she goes, doing all these things. And so, it’s hugely entertaining. It’s hugely funny, I hope, but it has a really cracking story too.
SARA-MAE: Well, I’m so excited. I wish it was ready now, but how are you going to get somebody who’s going to embody those characteristics of Sophy? I mean, that must be quite a big ask.
SARA-MAE: I’d heard on the grapevine that Jessie Buckley was their top choice for the role of Sophy. Something which fills me with joy because she’s so brilliant Wild Rose anyone? Not only does she have a fabulous voice, but her acting chops are well established.
ANDY PATERSON: We’ve cast Jessie Buckley, because she has that kind of extraordinary. She’s so full of life. And when you meet her, when you see her on the stage, she is just breathless. I think we fell in love with her, we felt she was Sophy. I’m a Producer, you must forgive the hype sometimes. I haven’t had that feeling we had about Jessie, since Scarlett Johansson walked into an audition for Girl with a Pearl Earring, when she was unknown.
SARA-MAE: Wow
ANDY PATERSON: And we just went oh my lord how are we going to get this done? Because nobody knows who this girl is yet. But she is that girl. And I haven’t had that feeling again until Jessie walked into the room.
SARA-MAE: Have you cast Charles Rivenhall?
ANDY PATERSON: We are going to shoot spring or summer next year, we are just looking at contenders for Charles at the moment. I will have the decisions to make quite soon. Cos it’s a big one. And I know what people are going to want, so it’s just about finding the right guy, who will be surprising but at the same time in the end the right reward for Sophy. What’s so good about this story is that the last thing she is interested in is falling in love with a man. She doesn’t think like that, it’s part of the world but. Certainly not what she’s looking out for, in a world where everyone is on the marriage mart. That’s not what she is interested in. So, you have to find someone that you can believe is worthy of her. And she’s so extraordinary it’s a really tough ask.
SARA-MAE: Kit Harrington, Harry Lloyd? His great-great-great grandfather was Charles Dickens, so that might be a nice literary connection…
ANDY PATERSON: Throw them out we are interested to know what people think of as the right answer for Charles.
SARA-MAE: I’m pretty sure Andy immediately regrets the invitation! As I start a long list of suggestions.
SARA-MAE: Aidan Turner…
Colin Morgan…
Bill Nighy…
There are so many wonderful people aren’t there.
ANDY PATERSON: Funny you should mention Bill Nighy…
SARA-MAE: Is he in the movie?
ANDY PATERSON: Not yet.
SARA-MAE: But there’s one person I’ve been longing to suggest, ever since our interview,
SARA-MAE: You have to have Stephen Fry, he is a huge Heyer fan.
ANDY PATERSON: ok. I don’t know who Stephen would play.
SARA-MAE: The real question is who couldn’t he play! This is national treasure, extraordinaire. Stephen Bloody Fry, we are talking about. Plus, I’ve often paired Heyer and PG Wodehouse in my mind as comic geniuses. Genii, is that a word? And it would be wonderful to have a connection to Wodehouse, by including Jeeves himself in the cast.
SARA-MAE: He could play her Dad? What do I know? Why am I telling you about casting?
SARA-MAE: Why don’t we ask the man himself? (extract from longer interview, episode one)
SARA-MAE: Apparently The Grand Sophy is being made into a film.
STEPHEN FRY: Yes, that’s right. That’s an interesting choice, isn’t it? One of my favourites. I’m sure it’ll be fascinating,
SARA-MAE: I’m surprised that you are not playing Sir Horace, her Dad.
STEPHEN FRY: (laughs)
SARA-MAE: How has that not happening?
STEPHEN FRY: I don’t know. I suppose you have to hear these things are happening. And apply or something. It’s fine. I’ll be very happy to go and see if. That’s most important thing isn’t it. Maybe if one praises its success it will give rise to others.
SARA-MAE: I move on to a question about the one troubling aspect of this book. There’s a scene with a Jewish money lender which has been seen by many as anti-Semitic. I wondered how Andy and Olivia had decided to deal with this troubling plot point.
ANDY PATERSON: Yes. There’s just no reason to go there. He’s a great character. I think we’ll play him slightly against type but it’s just not important. He is a money lender. What matters is that she goes off into his lair and does these amazing things. So, we are just going to completely ignore that. I’m sure if Georgette was writing the book now there would be entirely different sensibilities and would be something that would be in there. That’s best got rid of.
SARA-MAE: I ask Peter to weigh-in on the difficulties of adapting for the screen. Has he any advice to give to potential screenwriters?
PETER BUCKMAN: I did quite a lot of dramatizations myself when I was a full-time writer and my feeling is if you’ve got a good book, trust it and go with it. But then, you have to make various choices of what to leave out. There’s far too much of it in the book, there’s too much dialogue. If you look at any exchange between Heyer’s characters, they go on sometimes for pages. And witty and lovely though they are, you have to cut those, because viewers are even more impatient than readers.
But I would say in case we then get inundated with people who want to adapt her. I appreciate everyone’s desire to see her novels on screen, but we can only deal with production companies rather than individual writers. I get a lot of requests as an agent for the estate from individual writers who love her books and want to be allowed to do their own version of an adaptation. I’m afraid I have to say no, because without the production company behind you, there is absolutely no point. Especially if you’re not a very well-known writer. There is no point putting the work in and paying an option fee, when there is almost no hope of having it produced and broadcast. I have done some deals with an American Theatre Company, in Chicago.
SARA-MAE: This is the Lifeline Theatre, http://lifelinetheatre.com/ we were lucky enough to chat to Dorothy Milne and Christine Calvitt who worked on several book-to-play adaptations, look out for that in the coming weeks.
PETER BUCKMAN: It’s an amateur dramatic company with a loyal fanbase and they have done adaptations of several Georgette Heyer novels, on stage. And they go very well for their audience. Who are all loyal Heyer fans. And that’s the sort of thing that we are happy to countenance, and so if anyone is burning to adapt their favourite novel my suggestion, and you didn’t prime me to say this! Off the top of my head. My suggestion would be get an amateur dramatic group together and a place to put it on, and do it that way. Because that would be fun for all concerned. And we would be happy to license such a thing.
SARA-MAE: It’s clear that Peter’s seen a lot of attempts, come and go, in trying to get Heyer’s works to the screen. One can easily see why he’s recommending a course for writers that has a much greater chance of actually succeeding. How I wish I could have seen the Lifeline Theatre Productions. If only I could afford a ticket to Chicago. The main issue with the film seems to be how long it takes to get all the intricate pieces together, funding, cast, director and so on. And if anyone of these elements falls away the likelihood of success deteriorates rapidly. With that in mind, I ask Andy when we can expect to actually see The Grand Sophy in theatres?
ANDY PATERSON: Everything takes a long time in the movie business. We hope to shoot it May/June/July next year. But the process at the end of that, editing and finishing, marketing, means it’s usually, a good year after that. Usually it’s a good year between shooting and releasing.
SARA-MAE: Listen to future episodes for updates on The Grand Sophy and when it’ll come out. What can I say? I’m a tease.
SARA-MAE: Please keep us updated. Thank you so, so much for talking.
ANDY PATERSON: it’s a great pleasure. And it’ll be fun to update it as things go along. Who knows what you’ll think about the Charles decision, when the time comes.
SARA-MAE: Have a good day, bye.
ANDY PATERSON: Thank you for your enthusiasm, it’s great.
PETER BUCKMAN: Thank you very much.
Sara-Mae:
It was great to get an insight into the film process from such an experienced producer, there’s such passion underlying Andy’s pragmatism. And it’s great to imagine him and Olivia working on The Grand Sophy, exploring ideas about how to make this fab novel come to life for the screen. I can’t believe he indulged me in my casting ideas. For a minute there, I felt as though I was really part of the process. For a cinephile like me, was pure bliss.
As for Peter, he’s been an invaluable and generous font of information and advice throughout this process. None of this would have been possible without his kindness. We’ll be touching base again in later episodes to discuss further developments with the film and other *coughs* projects. So, if you are a Heyerite, stay tuned for that.
Next week it’s another Book Club Episode. Yay, this time I’ll be trying to convert Comedian Dom Patmore, who has the most amazing curly-wurly moustache you’ve ever seen. He and my cousin Talitha. Yes, another cousin, I have an enormous extended family. And I consider it my duty to indoctrinate as many of them as possible. They will be reading The Quiet Gentleman. Get it on your kindle or from Audible now at: https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/The-Quiet-Gentleman-Audiobook/B004FTBIIA or borrow from your local library. You’d have to be doing it much too brown to say you’re not interested in listening. Till next time, this has been Heyer Today.
This episode was recorded, produced and edited by me, Sara-Mae Tuson. With production, writing and research help from Beth Keen and Will Dell from Aurality for production support. Mike Scott for laughing at my jokes and production assistance. Thanks also to Geraldine Elliot, Talitha Gamaroff and everyone who supported me in creating this work. Thanks to Suzy Buttress in particular and the podcast community at large for invaluable support and advice.
The music used in this episode is from Emma Gatrill’s wondrous album Chapter One, as well as Jerome Alexander’s luscious Message to Bears Tunes. Original music was composed especially for the podcast by myself and Tom Chad. Comment and take part in our discussions on social media we are @fablegazers on Instagram, and @fable_gazers on Twitter. Heyer Today is a Fable Gazers Production.
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